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| Server Managers - FSX APAMS Subscription - One Month Free | |
Tim Walters   13th Apr 2014 09:52:34 | APAMS - What's that then..?
Let me explain... APAMS stands for 'Automated Pilot and ATC Management System' and is a tool to graph and manage both ATC's and pilots. Rather than me explaining everything here, please visit the APAMS website: http://apams.fsxeu.com We have a free trial on offer, so do take a look. Cheers Tim Walters FSXEU.COM Management. |
| Tim Walters 24th Apr 2014 20:10:34 | APAMS
We have now added an 'ATC Feedback' system where your pilots can leave anonymous feedback for your ATCs. The results are shown as a customizable graph as required. See: http://fsxeu.com/apams-info/ |
David Bartlam   25th Apr 2014 10:44:28 | €35 a month? is that a joke?
As soon as I saw that, I closed my browser. Let me put something into context for you, the FSOpen server is £8 a month, a Teamspeak is £10 a month, subscription to run an airline on FSAirlines is £2 a month. I could even get an Airac subscription for less. Your gameplan is wrong here and please excuse me for saying, if anybody is mad enough to purchase this, then you guys should wear masks because this is robbery! Just my opinion |
| David Bartlam 25th Apr 2014 10:55:54 | The graphs are good and they show a lot of information but they are never worth that. Apologies for the bluntness here but I just think you haven't done your research very well. |
| James Beaumont 25th Apr 2014 12:20:16 | Tim,
I do agree with Dave. It is obviously something that has taken a lot of time to create however I just don't think that anyone will really purchase this as the price of €35 is almost extortionate on a monthly basis. I would really like to know why you have to charge this much every month for something that all I can see do is generate graphs and have a database of controllers. Regards James Beaumont |
| Geoff Server 25th Apr 2014 14:33:50 | Hang on Guys...
We should be applauding anyone who is writing software to improve our gaming experience not beating them over the head. Dave's feedback is useful on the pricing which, I am sure Tim will take on board. As for saying they should be wearing masks is not very constructive at all. It is refreshing to see people are putting a lot and time and effort into enhancing our gaming experience. I looked at the web site and the software does seem to do a lot in fact, it seemed to do so much I was having a hard time trying to take it all in. After what seamed like an age to scroll down the web page I run out of time. Tim you might like to consider producing a scalable version, a free to try version, with limited functions. Then add extra features at a monthly cost upgrade and see how the market takes to it. Regards to all Geoff Server FSXMultiplay.com |
| David Bartlam 25th Apr 2014 16:35:53 | Geoff, I thinks it's extremely commendable that Tim has managed to create such a detailed set of statistics. I will be the first to admit that when I saw the charts and graphs on the FSXEU website, I contacted Dave Wave asking him if I could get the scripts, thinking that he had designed them.
Although my first comment may seem a bit rude and abrupt, after reading it back to myself, please take it with a pinch of salt. Anyone that sees me post on here will realise that I post things without reading them back first and later end up apologising for it being seemingly blunt. Unfortunately I type how I talk, bluntly but unfortunately you can't understand the tone nor mood via text. I think that the information is fantastic. I personally, as I've said would not pay this much. Money isn't an object for me when it comes to improving my session for members but I just can't see any benefits with this that will impact my community proportional to the price. I just don't there being much custom here, what i personally would have done was to get in touch with the FSOpen community, either privately or via the forum and ask them how much they would pay for a monthly subscription. I spend over €100 a month on my session as it is so I wouldn't commit to something like this. If it was a more respectable price, then yes I would. |
| David Bartlam 25th Apr 2014 16:37:54 | I just don't think there'll be much custom here initially* |
| Tim Walters 25th Apr 2014 20:20:02 | Hi Guys
Thanks for the feedback. Like anything new, we have to start somewhere with the price and as with any new phone, it's usually overpriced! I suppose that's because everyone wants the latest phone and there is the market there for it. I am glad of the feedback gentlemen. It seems you ARE interested in the product, just not at the price suggested. It's taken me six months to get this to where it is today and I am continuing to develop it, so perhaps I was a little ambitious with the pricing. However, I must say the following: This is a unique product that will save you significant time managing your ATC list. It will increase traffic to your server. It will increase and improve ATC participation on your server as they will try to compete with each other. I could go on - but that's why the website link was posted above... We set the price this high as we did not want to have this system used by the non-professional servers who would/could mess us around and decided to aim at those who are serious about the FSOpen network. I take on board the fact that I should have asked around the network to see what the accepted price could be, but the system is SOOO detailed and in-depth that it's hard to put a price on it until you've actually used it. To us at FSXEU, it's priceless.. ;-) IF you guys could suggest a price you WOULD be willing to pay, then we can perhaps reach a compromise. We would very much like to see it used on the network, but as the customer base is quite small, we do need to gain sufficient funds to cover at least some of our costs. Best Regards Tim Walters FSXEU.COM |
| David Bartlam 25th Apr 2014 22:50:09 | Tim,
As I said in my email, please do not think i was being rude. Unfortunately I'm very honest and open, sometimes it creeps up to bite me in the butt. I think what you have done is brilliant. The work you have put into your project is extremely commendable. With FSOpen only being a small community with just a few of the "serious, long standing" servers, I can understand why your subscription price was/is high. To get a good return from those few servers, that's why you should price high. Unfortunately it's just too much for a lot of people, even those that don't mind spending money on their sessions. As a personal note from me, I'd pay a subscription of between £5-10 a month. That's quite a lot less than what you are asking. Dave has designed a piece of coding that tells us how many hours our controllers have wracked up and our virtual airline tells us the pilot hours. I know that the most popular planes on our server our the PMDG 737 and 777 along with the majestic dash 8, so I'd be paying got something I already know. I think one thing you could consider is similar to what Geoff suggested, but also similar to what the designer of my KaCARS system does. We paid a small price for the System and then added bits at small cost later on. I personally think you would make more money in the long run to supply a base package and allow hosts to pick and chose added code snippets at a later date (http://www.fs-products.net do the same for their VA systems). If you sold a base package for £30 and then extras for like £1-2 a pop after, you'd make more money in one sale than you could from a server that would then pay for a subscription of a month, cancel the next month and then still have the coding etc at their disposal. Then, server owners can choose what information they feel is important enough to have on their website. FSXWorldwide is about to become affiliated with Vatsim and IVAO (once we get our VA accepted and verified). This will be our main platform. We are still keeping an FSOpen server running but only to get our newer and inexperienced members up to an adequate level suitable for comfortability when dealing with pilots and controllers on the more professional networks, primarily, we will be becoming a stepping stone. Therefore, only certain aspects of your system would be of use to me, maybe hours (although we get that from Dave anyway) and the feedback modules, although we do have a forum and website, Facebook etc we could utilise. You've put a great deal of hard work and effort into this system and so obviously deserve merit so good on you. |
Joe Clifford  26th Apr 2014 11:31:10 | Afternoon all,
Thought I would put my 2p in. Having written my own application for FSX/P3D I understand the immediate desire to put a price next to the add on. You've spent so much time on it, you would like to get something back for the time you have spent. Sometimes, however, that isn't the best way of doing it. My software is free (at the moment ). It's logs peoples flights, displays them on a website, plots their journey on a map, does fuel burn calculations during the flight, monitors aircraft variables and uploads a text log of your actions, starts all your FSX add ons with one click of a button, to name a few. With lots more features coming soon. It has taken me months. It has most features that come with a Virtual Airline, but with no restrictions on what/where/when/how you fly. Feedback has been positive and I am currently in talks to take the product to a level I hadn't ever imagined. I'm incurring cost and getting nothing in return. The server which I rent is handling hundreds of requests every min and in order to handle the load is costing me a considerable amount each month. I came to the conclusion that before I could begin to charge for my product I must first test the market, let them try it out and see how it goes. It's gone well. Drip feed features in; but for a cost (eventually). Dave does the same with FSOpen, you can use FSOpen server software for free, up to 10 players. After that, in order to use all the functionality, you must pay. That seems fair to me. Maybe this is a strategy you would be good to implement. I agree that it is great you are developing an application that improves the FSX experience, but is the improvement worth €30 a month? That's more than my mobile phone bill. (Just to put into perspective) I like David's idea of having a base package with the ability to opt into/out of more services. By lowering your price you are opening your market to more people. Selling more of your product at a lower price could result in a higher revenue and ultimately profit (I'm assuming your costs are fixed) than you would by selling at a higher price to less people. Tim, you currently offer a one month free trial. For most applications, one month is ample time, however, I am thinking that for a system that collects data an accurate measure of the data the system would be collecting in the long term can not be achieved in one month. Some months are busier than others. How about you continue with the one month free, however, after that month is up allow the server to opt into another month (extended trial period) at a really low price. Even if they haven't grown to the product within the first month, the low price may be a reason to just keep it running for the sake of it. During that time, you may find that they like the product and end up paying to keep it on as their membership has got used to looking at the graphs/charts. My advice: lower the price, allow for an extended trial period and put into place an 'opt-in/opt-out' scheme. Don't stick with the niche of 'Pro Servers', it too high risk. Widen your market. I wish you the best of luck with your venture. Regards, Joe |
| Tim Walters 26th Apr 2014 11:44:23 | Seems Mr Kubos at kACARS is unable to do these customisations at the moment. Seems it's not worth his effort any more despite his rather pricey solution.
This HAS to be a subscription service as Mr Wave here has offered with the FSOpen network. To sell you code that may not work in two years time is not really an option as developments continue both here and on FSOpen. If Dave were to terminate the FSOpen network, for whatever reason, then the code you purchased would be of no use. We don't want that to happen. How does £10 per month for a base package (as suggested by Geoff) - with extras that can be bolted on as required at a later date... I'm guessing the base package will be the ATC stats/graphs only. With the automation and Pilot Stats being the addons at £2 per item... As you've probably guessed, I'm fishing for ideas here. Cheers TimW. |
| Tim Walters 26th Apr 2014 14:41:46 | Hi Joe
Thanks for the input. For information (and for testing), I have been logging other servers so do please contact me as you might be one of the lucky ones with data to experiment with. Cheers TimW |
| Tim Walters 14th May 2014 11:31:19 | For information guys, the subscription price IS now £10 per month for the whole package.
Best regards Tim Walters FSXEU.COM |
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