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| LIGHT AIRCRAFT VFR FLYING AT SHOREHAM | |
Christian Smith   13th Oct 2010 13:43:37 | I'm pleased to announce that the managers of FSopen have approved the proposal for regular VFR Flying – within Light Aircraft – at Shoreham Airfield.
Starting at 1930 (UK Time) on a Thursday will be a training-type evening, providing information and support for pilots from pilot mentors. It’s a great opportunity for a variety of experience levels to come along and find out more about VFR Flight. Starting at 1930 (UK Time) on a Saturday will be a fly together night. Details provided each week on the ground a Shoreham. For the sessionS I ask that you fly in Default aircraft only, some good aircraft you might wish to fly are: Fixed Wing: Beechcraft Baron 58, Beechcraft Kingair 350, Cessna C172SP, Cessna 208B Grand Caravan, Grumman Goose G21A, Maule Orion, Mooney Bravo, Piper J-3. Rotorcraft: Bell 206B Jet Ranger, Dido Sim 206B Jet Ranger, Robinson R22 Beta 2, Augusta Westland. I feel this is a very comprehensive list the use of add-on aircraft should not be required. Just to let you know the overseeing manager is Geoff Server, so if you have any questions then catch me or Geoff on t/s or leave a comment below. All Members welcome :) THE FIRST SESSION IS SET FOR THURSDAY 21st OCTOBER – SEE YOU IN THE SKIES. REGARDS, CHRISTIAN PS. I’ll shortly add a video for ‘The Traffic Pattern’ should anyone not be familiar with this. |
| Christian Smith 13th Oct 2010 14:04:45 | THURSDAYS AND SATURDAYS ARE STILL NORMAL ATC NIGHTS AND THE USUAL ATC WILL BE IN PLACE IN ADDITION TO THIS REGULAR VFR SESSION- SO FOR THOSE WHO DONT FANCY SOME VFR FLYING YOU CAN EXPECT THE USUAL FSO ATC SERVICES AND FUN AS ALWAYS |
| Mick McG 13th Oct 2010 14:37:49 | Great idea Christian and congratulations for getting this "off the ground" (forgive the pun).
I thought this link might be useful, it depicts a standard overhead join for VFR flights (and is kind of what Geoff makes us do on the prop night hops). http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ga_srgwebStandardOverheadJoinPosterJan09.pdf M |
| Christian Smith 13th Oct 2010 14:50:36 | Thanks Mick. The Shoreham Airport website has a few handy ones. Haven't seen this one before though.
If you find any more, would it be possible for you to email them to me :) I'll pass my address in t/s. For pilots who look at this chart, be aware I'm going to add some simple videos for charts such as this one which easily explain what is being depicted so dont worry if it makes no sense :) |
Victor Finstad  14th Oct 2010 19:29:51 | Very nice Christian!
If I can be so bold as to suggest that the Nemeth Designs EC-135, be added to the list of accepted rotorcrafts... I simply love to fly it. I dont have the Dodo Sim 206B, nor the EH101 from the acceleration pack. |
| Christian Smith 15th Oct 2010 23:29:41 | Hi Victor,
First join a session and ask a fellow pilot what they see you as, if its a Bell Ranger then no worries. Also, If you require any rotorcraft training you will be asked to use a default aircraft so that the mentor can join your aircraft- using addons does not make this possible. I do know how addon rotorcraft Really Really enhance flight as FSX defaults are pretty rubbish- I dont think there is this requirement for fixed wing aircraft. PS. I highly recommend the Dodo Sim 206B as an addon - I know I love it :) |
| Christian Smith 15th Oct 2010 23:30:07 | **** Bell Jet Ranger |
Geoff Server  16th Oct 2010 16:51:37 | The following Info on the VATSIM is pretty useful for flying into and out of Shorham. Its a bit easier to understand than the offical docs from NATS
http://www.vatsim-uk.org/regions/southeast/index.php?page=egka |
| Geoff Server 16th Oct 2010 19:41:24 | If you are going to join the Shoreham sessions please download the following free scenery fom Just flight... It is completely free and provides great ground phot real scenery in and around Shoreham airport as well as Shoreham airport in all its glory.
Get it here: http://www.justflight.com/vfr-info.asp#demos Go to DEMOS on the page and download VOLUME 1 (South east England) run and off you go! |
| Victor Finstad 17th Oct 2010 11:02:00 | Christian;
No need for rotorcraft training, but thanks anyway. Hopefully they'll all see me as a 206 Jet Ranger, or even better, as an EC-135. Installed the DEMO scenery from JustFlight. EGKA looks better, but the scenery around the field looked rubbish from 600ft (rotorcraft circuit alt). Maybe my settings are wrong? Missing VRP's, buildings and stuff... Hints and clues will be recieved with many thanks ;) |
Joe Lewis  17th Oct 2010 11:56:10 | Victor,
Photographic scenery does not have any autogen (buildings, trees), only the texture, which is from photographs. You can either have "Generic" autogen & textures, or photoscenery, not both. shouldn't need to see VRPs in a circuit at 600ft anyway, VRPs are (usually) only used when you're on a route or are asked from ATC to report it visually, don't see the need to have a circuit based around a VRP Joe |
| Mick McG 17th Oct 2010 12:41:29 | H'o guys, just had a shot at EGKA with the suggested VFR scenery - got to say that I much prefer it to the default. I realise that Victor is going to struggle with perpective at 600ft for his heli circuits but from 2000ft it looks fine with recognisable features on the ground like the golf course and quarry pits etc. You can pick out individual streets easily in the town and, to my mind, makes the default scenery look like something of a desert by comparison. EGKA looks pretty good with the buildings, Tower etc but more importantly, the grass strips are easily discernable too.
IMHO an excellent free addition, thanks for the link Geoff. M |
| Victor Finstad 17th Oct 2010 17:30:25 | I guess its gonna be fixed wing for me too then... Or heli flights to/from EGLW London Heliport(free addon). Looking forward to see Shoreham flying club up and running. |
| Christian Smith 19th Oct 2010 13:08:13 | *Geoff, couldn't find your email in my address book.
Currently having some quite large technical problems and I'm awaiting a recovery disc to be dispatched from acer. Some virus has got onto my PC preventing me from starting up FSX, reinstalling it, or even using system restore! Unfortunately, It's not looking like I'm going to recieve this for Thursday. My plan was just to do some circuits on the first night but more professional; so ensuring reaching 1,000ft on Crosswind then the turn for downwind, maintaining seperation with a/c at all times etc etc usual stuff. Some descent circuits basically. If youre happy then I'm sure you could do something around this, and if not, We could postpone to next Thursday. Up too you! *Victor I'm sure we could use London Heliport for one of our Saturday fly togethers. People without an EC-135 defintely wont see you as one, I'll probably see you as an Essex Air Ambulance 135 as thats the nearest I'll have to your aircraft- hope this makes sense. *Joe, Just so you know the sessions will extend beyond circuits, and its hoped that VRPs will become part of our flightplans within the first few weeks- just so you know :) And also, just in response to your comment (I know we'll talk about this soon.. however,) VRP 'circuits' do exist. But rather than a circuit, they can be used as a hold to keep to VFR traffic for the approach or out of the way of other approaching aircraft :) We'll have lots of time to talk about this though. :) Christian |
| Christian Smith 19th Oct 2010 13:09:38 | Thats decent not descent circuits, we dont want to cut the engines or anything :p |
| Joe Lewis 19th Oct 2010 13:18:42 | Christian, I never said there wasn't such thing as a VRP circuit, I just don't see any need for VRPs in a circuit, after all, when you're flying a VFR circuit you can (usually) see the runway! As you said...there only needed if ATC want you to hold!
Had to hold over ROCHESTER because there was a bunch (4 or 5) jets on approach into biggin, that's quite a large distance away considering I was a mere c172! (IRL ofcourse) |
| Christian Smith 19th Oct 2010 13:29:47 | Ermmm, yep. You cant do a circuit if the VMC is not met as you'd not be able to maintain visual with the airfield. VRPs are not used in the circuit as you say.. I'm sure they'll be a local procedure somewhere thats goes against the grain though. |
| Christian Smith 19th Oct 2010 13:32:29 | I just felt very old having to google 'IRL' - bad crack! |
| Joe Lewis 19th Oct 2010 13:59:50 | LOL, IRL means 'In Real'... didn't want you to think I meant on a sim!
Rochester is a grass airfield just off the M2 south of Chatham, and Biggin Hill is all the way west, south of Keston, that's atleast 15 nm, usually we would have to wait at about 5nm out, this was just a scenic flight over the themes (under rw27's ILS into LCY) east over Grays/Tilbury (where I be !) then down to rochester, usually we'd expect to hold nearby the part when the M25 turns north (which is about 5nm from biggin) but flying under londons not no quiet airspace, you can never be suprised! So this was not a circuit, but just an example of how you can enter a pattern from a VRP, then again, the part I mentioned the M25, is not a VRP or Reporting Point, just an easy target if we can't be bothered to use DME, LOL. Just ordered Just Flight's VFR Real Scenery 'Collection' off ebay, hopefully that'll be much easier when it comes to VFR ! Joe |
| Christian Smith 20th Oct 2010 11:58:48 | *Cancel that. Back up and running again, and will be all set to fly tomorrow |
| Christian Smith 21st Oct 2010 11:30:06 |
JUST A REMINDER THAT THE FIRST SESSION IS TONIGHT T/O 7.30PM BST Just posted as its our first session... a few things to 'take onboard' ;) Firstly it is a good idea to arrive before the half 7 takeoff time due to the number of stands. A good fly-in route is EGLC - EGKA (Around 20 Minutes). New pilots can flick your GPS on just after take off from City (depart from runway 5), and the GPS will fly you from threshold to threshold (RWY 20) From 7pm, Shoreham Airspace will become LIVE, between 715 and 730 all departures will be held to allow arriving aircraft to land. So please do not begin any circuits etc from 715 PM.... Please remember that this is not a bump in to each other night, and the use of crash detection is recommended. Geoff also added some great reading bits on the post and reading this would be recommended. See you on the ground guys :D Christian |
| Christian Smith 21st Oct 2010 11:34:54 | ***
http://www.shorehamairport.co.uk/files/Image/circuit%20maps/cct-fixedwing2004.jpg *** |
| Joe Lewis 21st Oct 2010 11:37:39 | Do we fly from LCY to Shoreham to arrive at Shoreham before 7:30 PM?
Or do we meet you on the ground at LCY? or Shoreham? |
| Christian Smith 21st Oct 2010 11:58:29 | I'll be on the ground at Shoreham from around 7, possibly in the tower.
Flying from LCY avoids any problems with getting a stand and is just a nice route to fly, people tend to load up at an airport then do some circuits... however,due to the fact that some people may spawn in the air this is not possible, So rather than doing this I suggested the City to Shoreham route as an optional "Pre Flight". Aim to depart City at 7, for a 7.20-7.30 arrival. Hope this makes sense :) |
| Joe Lewis 21st Oct 2010 12:06:03 | Ok makes sense now, just to remind anybody that wants to use proper altitude restrictions...
http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-8FA648F7B7392E228FCE87811BB9EED0/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/AD/AIRAC/EG_AD_2_EGLC_4-1_en_2010-06-03.pdf http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-8FA648F7B7392E228FCE87811BB9EED0/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/AD/AIRAC/EG_AD_2_EGLL_3-1_en_2010-08-26.pdf London City CTR, London CTR and Gatwick CTA are all around LCY, and you have to navigate around gatwick CTA to get to shoreham, top limit is 2500', usually we'd aim to be below 2400'. PS: Notice all the VRPs around LCY, maybe a good place to go? |
| Christian Smith 21st Oct 2010 12:29:11 | Yep thanks Joe. :)
I've also suggested the direct route via GPS for newer pilots. no ATC booked at GAtwick tonight so flying overhead at FL060, North to South cross - should be fine if you wish. Christian |
| Christian Smith 21st Oct 2010 14:13:24 | VFR Circuits:
Not a great video, I picked up on at least 3 errors, however you get to watch the video too... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_98OON99oJs I also made this recording earlier. Thanks to Thomas for playing pilot. Scroll down to 'VFR CONVERSATION' and hit play. Make sure you have Windows Media Plug-n allowed: This is a typical conversation between a pilot and air traffic controller for a visual circuit. 10 Points to anyone who can pick up on the mistake ;) http://www.corrsupport.co.uk/egkainformation.htm |
| Christian Smith 21st Oct 2010 14:17:54 | What's a circuit?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuDLQ07_aFA&feature=mfu_in_order&playnext=1&videos=1J0jSH21iac |
| Joe Lewis 21st Oct 2010 16:25:07 | Christian, Are we allowed to use addon aircraft?
There's some OK freeware planes, like a C152 (just flight) and a PA-38 Tomahawk (somewhere on simviation) |
| Joe Lewis 21st Oct 2010 17:08:50 | Just Flight's Cessna 152 is seen as a Trike, because the c152 is a "Single Engine Prop"... and when somebody doesn't have the 152, they see the first plane that is in that category, a trike, is it possible to make people see a c172?? really want to use this plane. |
| Tam Spiers 21st Oct 2010 17:52:11 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5RpmviJ918
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWnDMzOOvso http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWnDMzOOvso http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWnDMzOOvso have a look (O)(O) shoreham airport ye ha |
Adam Richardson  21st Oct 2010 17:53:05 | Just to let you know, I might not turn up to these sessions anymore. Its a bit to formal for me....
Thanks, Adam PS: Great idea, good luck! |
| Christian Smith 21st Oct 2010 18:03:28 | No probs Adam.
Tonight is really the only time lots of information is being thrown out due to the fact that lots of vary skills will be at the airfield- so information has been made available. Unfortunately due to the nature of VFR Flying, and the aim of the sessions, some reading is going to be needed so that you fully understand each procedure. As well as this, each Thursday is a training evening and therefore does have some sense of formality in place. Saturdays remain the fly together, implemening the skills learnt on the Thursday into a casual flight on the Saturday. It would be up to you if youd wish to attend these, though youd mainly just be using your GPS and flying direct to airfields flying under IFR Rules. Non the less thanks for feedback. Clear skies, Christian |
| Christian Smith 23rd Oct 2010 21:17:22 | Thank to those who attended tonight, there was some top notch comms between everyone.
If anyone has any suggestions for the Saturday fly together please feel free to go ahead and organise something- I'm happy for anyone to take a lead in coordinating this. As I said earlier I'll shortly post a video as an example of VFR Departure comms. Hope to see you all Thursday... Christian |
| Christian Smith 23rd Oct 2010 21:41:09 | DEPARTURE COMMS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEO68bR4LjI |
| Paul Edmond 23rd Oct 2010 21:52:27 | I was hoping if possible to take the group at some point around some Scottish airports. Mainly cumbernauld - Glasgow - Inverness |
| Paul Edmond 23rd Oct 2010 21:54:00 | Sorry Cumbernauld - Edinburgh - Perth |
| Christian Smith 23rd Oct 2010 22:16:56 | Arrrrrr I suppose so, I'll do a departure stall and you can do an arrival stall...
deal? :p But in seriousness yes that sounds good, give it 2 weeks so we can practise NDBs, VRPs, and practise a little ATC, and it sounds like a great event! Christian |
| Paul Edmond 23rd Oct 2010 22:45:17 | Sounds like a plan. I cant make thursdays as I said but if you can keep what happened each day updated on the forum I can sort of brush up on wiki before saturdays :) |
| Christian Smith 8th Dec 2010 20:17:51 | Thought I'd bring this up again for anyones interest in the sessions. |
| Mick McG 8th Dec 2010 23:06:34 | Yep, I'm still up for these sessions although my availability/attendance will always be somewhat haphazard. I'd be especially interested in Paul's idea of some Scottish landaways, and maybe suggest Dundee along with the others? M |
| Christian Smith 9th Dec 2010 20:03:26 | Yep sounds good - Paul I've seen your videos perhaps you could lead on this flight? You will know the airspace alot better than I will! :) |
| Paul Humphries 10th Dec 2010 10:54:17 | It's the 1st time I had managed this session last night, thanks for the ATC and sorry I didn't get to the city! And as ever I learnt alot! |
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