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| VFR Thursday 17th We are not alone. | |
Laurence Woodside   7th Feb 2011 22:24:38 | 
Curiosity got the better of me while flying around. How close should we go?What is the rule regarding ballons? |
Dave Wave   7th Feb 2011 22:26:31 | I'm sure balloons and gliders have to give way to light aircraft.
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Adam Burke  7th Feb 2011 22:30:45 | nope light aircraft have to give way as they have more control |
| Dave Wave 7th Feb 2011 22:33:59 | That explains the hand signals last time I passed a balloon then! |
| Jamie Owens 7th Feb 2011 23:21:26 | hahahha dave! |
| Pete Gummerson 7th Feb 2011 23:54:12 | What would happen a balloon or airship was to stray into an airport like Heathrom or Gatwick, would all airtrafic have to be grounded or sent of to holding paterns.
I suppose gliders would be told to ditch in a field before they got too near. Is that correct? |
| Stephen Dubbie 8th Feb 2011 00:30:27 | there would be hilarious consequences
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| Stephen Dubbie 8th Feb 2011 00:30:42 |
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| Laurence Woodside 8th Feb 2011 14:35:59 | And for a definitive answer we await Mick’s response |
| Christian Smith 8th Feb 2011 15:58:10 | Just about you head out Laurence but you may wish to consult CAP393... Should give you the answer (No promises!!) ... Section 2 or maybe 3?
Have fun :p |
| Dave Wave 8th Feb 2011 16:41:34 | Classic Top Gear.
Some actor did a balloon trip on TV not so long ago. Seemed to remember him saying that unlike the UK it was possible to fly into controlled airspace. Must just use height to stay out of the way of traffic. |
| Christian Smith 8th Feb 2011 18:48:34 | Quick browse over 393 and can't seem to find it... it may seem we'll await Mick's response... of even better the CAAs! I have a feeling it will be to 'maintain safe visual seperation, whilst maintain the Rules of Flight'
However I did find somewhere (maybe the CAA VFR Guide) some info on your question Pete... both gliders and balloon pilots shall ditch their aircraft should they stray into CAS and not be permitted either to land or be in the zone in the first place! (Or in the CAAs words 'Land Immediately') On a seperate note, after wetting myself watching the topgear video; Don't you think that the 'Oscar India 99' Pilot sounds alot like our very own Police 'Alpha 99' Andy ;) |
| Stephen Dubbie 8th Feb 2011 18:53:51 | this is the way the FAA see it
Unmanned Balloons. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an unmanned balloon below 2,000 humm, operating a unmanned balloon, intresting but of cource just ask ATC and he'll just go: Sure why not, ill get my camera out |
| Christian Smith 8th Feb 2011 20:41:42 | The CAA see this similar...
Low Flying Rule (5) prevents any aicraft (accept Police qualifeid pilots and Mil) below 1,000ft above settlement in case of engine failure... I imagine this to be the same in the USA. Though not sure with the unmanned bit!? Still this does not provide information on lateral seperation :/ |
| Mick McG 9th Feb 2011 20:14:35 | H'o Chaps,
Some definitive answers "hoiked" out of CAP393 and 493 for you (well, done Christian). It's boring stuff so feel free to give it a miss unless you just have to know, lol. 1. "Notwithstanding that a flight is being made with air traffic control clearance it shall remain the duty of the commander of an aircraft to take all possible measures to ensure that his aircraft does not collide with any other aircraft". (Mick's Note - Manned balloons and airships are considered as aircraft). 2. "An aircraft shall not be flown in such proximity to other aircraft as to create a danger of collision". 3. "Aircraft in the air shall give way to other, converging aircraft as follows: (a) flying machines shall give way to airships, gliders and balloons; (b) airships shall give way to gliders and balloons; (c) gliders shall give way to balloons". Re gliders straying into CAS: 4. "The majority of gliders which operate on cross-country flights are radio equipped and therefore may request transit through controlled airspace under VFR in accordance with the normal airspace procedures. Controllers should endeavour to accommodate such aircraft to the maximum practicable extent commensurate with the traffic situation but should be aware of the inherent limitations of glider operations in their inability to adhere to specific levels or routes. In certain Class D airspace, gliders are permitted to operate without reference to ATC, but the majority of flights will, in practice, communicate with ATC and be integrated as detailed above". Re Balloons: 5. "Pilots of controlled balloon flights are required to comply with the same rules that apply to other aircraft and subject to normal clearances. In practice balloons are only able to comply with instructions from an ATC unit for changes in level. It is anticipated, although not mandatory, that clearance would be sought prior to take-off and would only rarely be issued for flights in busy airspace. The minimum in-flight weather conditions by day are those required for VFR in the relevant class of airspace. Balloon flights are not permitted in Class A airspace, other than on a Special VFR clearance". 6. "Controllers are reminded that, subject to the provisions of MATS Part 1, Section 1, Chapter 4, they should take into account the present and expected traffic situation when considering requests for flight and should not hesitate to refuse a clearance if other traffic is likely to be compromised. It is unlikely that balloons will be operating in wind speeds of greater than 15 knots". Told you it was boring! M :) |
| Mick McG 9th Feb 2011 20:40:28 | ....so in answer to Pete's question;
If a balloon or glider strayed into KK or LL's CTZ without a clearance, then yes; depending on the position of the "infringer" departures may have to be rerouted or stopped altogether and arrivals may have to hold off. The CAA feds would be despatched to feel the pilot's collar and he'd have his licence revoked for being an idiot. Geoff and Dave do a similar job for us on FSo! Clear skies all :) M |
Joe Lewis  9th Feb 2011 20:46:04 | "Geoff and Dave do a similar job for us on FSo! "
If you do something very silly one of the managers will allow you to continue you're approach normally. then turn off the runway lights, LOL! |
| Christian Smith 10th Feb 2011 00:17:18 | CAP493! Thats the tiger I was thinking of! I have it fully printed off under my desk and still couldnt think of the doc I was after ;) |
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