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| pmdg747-400 | |
Tam Spiers  10th Jul 2011 14:04:18 | any good web sites how to programe autoland and how to follow sids to ils |
Neil Veldhuyzen  10th Jul 2011 14:38:25 | I would try youtube if you haven't already mate. I learned how to fly the pmdg MD-11 there :) This video looks not to bad for a tutorial... |
Steff Missot  10th Jul 2011 22:32:22 | I've been searching for the song on the video for about 1 year, thanks!!!! |
| Tam Spiers 11th Jul 2011 19:25:58 | thanks will give it a go
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Isak Kindgren  12th Jul 2011 16:45:45 | That's very cool Steff, same thing for me, finally found it on youtube: Bitter Sweet Symphony with The Verve, if that was the one you mean?:)
/Isak |
Mohammad Freigoun 12th Jul 2011 17:14:12 | hi , i know that the aim of this tut is Auto land, but this guy might damage his flaps before he knows after take off , he kept the acceleration height 800ft as default ! with initial speed of 250 ! and why i am quite sure !!! he toke off without throttle reference ! remember ... ( TO/GA) KEY ! .. The rest of the video .. didn't see it ! |
| Joe Lewis 12th Jul 2011 18:34:21 | It's a bad idea to use TO/GA in ANY plane, certainly the 747-400 because most flights in the 747 are long haul and you need that fuel that would otherwise be used, using TOGA. 500 feet wont make much of a difference, we use anywhere between 1000-1500ft in the UK, on the 767 usually between 1000-1500 depending on the noise abatement procedures. 1000 Is usually the lowest though. Places like Innsbruck, the acceleration altitude is usually at about 9000 feet. We keep Flaps 15 all the way up to 10000 feet and the cabin is unsecured at about 12000 feet not 10000 feet like in the SOPs.
Tam, let us know how you get on! Regards/ Joe |
| Mohammad Freigoun 13th Jul 2011 01:26:51 | hi all, the key TO/GA as we all know is the (Take off/Go Around) key which has been done to relate the autothrottle system with your FMC pages (THRUST LIM - take off - go around ) which can be easily found by clicking at INDEX 6L or 6R whenever it show up , we all know that this is not the case ...
the pilot once decided to take off he should apply manual forward push to the throttle livers up to approx (60%-70%) or (1.10 EPR) with a quick scan of Engs Temps, RPMs and oil pressure , once all normal he might proceed with the (TAKE OFF/GO AROUND)=(TO/GA) key to relate the auto throttle with FMC to ensure the following statement of the REAL LIFE BOING OPERATING PROCEDURES ( EASY TO FIND ) : TYPICAL THRUST SETTINGS FOR NORMAL TAKEOFF 94% N1 at takeoff weight 600.000 pounds (272.000 kg) 96% N1 at takeoff weight 800.000 pounds (362.880 kg 105% N1 at takeoff weight 875.000 pounds (396.900 kg) you should be doing those in the FMC ( at the gate and let the TO/GA key make it true in the runway ! ----- at 80 knots the auto speed portion in the PFD will vary from (THR REF) to (HOLD) , V1 you can remove your hands from the throttle and get ready to rotate at Vr , when you hear V2 (probably) any problems that might happen will be solved after airborne ! ----- 500ft can change every thing sometimes even in the 747s , when we talk about take offs and landing ... it's a long way to go ! ----- IF THERE ANY ONE SAYING WE DON'T USE TO/GA for the NORMAL NORMAL NORMAL take off procedure , you might be correct , but let me know what is the THRUST LIM page in your CDU done for ? you know what i think .. TO/GA is there to SAVE your FUEL !! ----- Lets go now for a tour about what other people think : (((1)))Move throttles slowly forward to around 70% N1, then click the TO/GA button. The TO/GA (Take Off/Go Around) button tells the flight computer to control throttle settings during takeoff and initial climbout. The TO/GA button is located on the screw at the upper right of the AFDS MCP (in the real cockpit, it's a thumb activated button on the yoke). Apply slight forward pressure on the stick/yoke until you reach around 80 knots to keep the nose gear firmly against the runway. Use rudder to keep the plane centered on the runway. If something goes wrong or you receive an EICAS warning message, quickly return throttles to idle and initiate reverse thrust (F2 key). Autobraking will commence if you are travelling over 85 knots, otherwise apply braking, exit the runway, resolve the problem, and try again. (LINK : http://smithplanet.com/fs2004/pmdg/) (((2)))Once an aircraft has lined up, the pilots increase the engines to 60% RPM of Low Pressure Turbine (on Boeings) (50% on Airbuses) (this is done to prevent flame out on take off due to compressor stall) and then press the TO/GA switch (push thrust levers to TOGA or FLEX on Airbus planes), the engines then increase to their computed take off power. Modern aircraft flight management computers will determine the power needed by the engines to take off based on a number of factors such as runway length, wind speed, temperature, and most importantly the weight of the aircraft. In older aircraft these calculations were performed by the pilots before a takeoff. The advantage of having such a system is the ability to reduce wear and tear on the engines by only using as much power as is actually required to ensure the aircraft reaches a safe take off speed. (link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeoff/Go-around_switches ) (((3))) Advance Thrust levers to approximately 70% N1 and allow engines to stabilize. Push TO/GA switch to advance Thrust levers to takeoff thrust, or manually advance Thrust levers to takeoff thrust. (LINK : GET YOUR SELF THE REAL MANUAL FOR THE BOING 747-400 AND LOOK UP PAGE (142/964) ) for one who's interested ! i know you will find your way to that manual if you don't have it allready !! ------ I am tired already .. any speaks about flaps and 500feets and initial speeds will better be in Team speak ... or you know what .. you have the manual now !! :) ------ FINALLY : I am really sorry if this reply wasn't tight , that goes to my poor knowledge and my simple English ! Kind Regards to all readers Mohammad Freigoun |
| Joe Lewis 13th Jul 2011 18:56:40 | Mohammad,
The THRUST LIM page is to derate your takeoff thrust. It limits your takeoff N1 to simulate higher temperatures, thus less engine power and less fuel burn on the takeoff run. TO/GA is TAKEOFF/GO AROUND thrust, which I think is full power in the 747-400, But I haven't been on it in about 3 months! You use THR REF on the MCP for the autothrottle to set your thrust to the reference N1 calculated from the temperature you imputted in the THRUST LIM page of the FMC. Using full power is generally not normal. Only for short runways/heavy loads. For a 767/757 it's not really heard of, we can climb like a bat out of a hell with flaps 15 out of places like innsbruck. 51-61C Derates are common. I don't know about the 747, but I guess about 40-50C are quite common. I am only current on the 767, but the N1 mode on the MCP will set your thrust to the reference N1 on the EICAS or TAKEOFF page on the FMC. I assume it's similar to the 747. Just to let you know the info I'm explaining is only from limited time (500-1000 hours) in the 747. I am only assuming most is similar to the 767. (4000 hours+) Regards/ Joe |
| Mohammad Freigoun 13th Jul 2011 20:10:31 | Dear Senior / Joe,
The Thrust required especially for take off is a directly related to the ( surrounding Temp + Load + runway cond. ) I think we all agreed about this as I already said last reply . ---- Let me divide the rest of this to a comments and a question: ---- *Quote : " TO/GA is TAKEOFF/GO AROUND thrust, which I think is full power in the 747-400 " Comment: "I think " you said .. I am a fried I'd say " I Think not " to be clear .. I already said how it works above.. please refer to the FMCs Manuals .. it's my bible when we talk about systems . ---- *Quote : "thus less engine power and less fuel burn on the takeoff run " *Comment: " I already said that above on a disagreement with your 1st reply " ---- *Quote : " The THRUST LIM page is to derate your takeoff thrust " Comment: " Yes, but not only this , the main purpose actually is calculating the required thrust according to the variables mentioned ,instead of obtaining N1 using charts and long long empirical equations manually " --- Question : " then what is TO/GA key doing around if it's not full power ! " Answer : " high power is different from full or MAX power and the TO/GA key main aim is adjust and apply your orders in the THRUST LIM page, indeed,it's always High power." ---- THE PART THAT I TOTALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND IS YOU SAYING : " It's a bad idea to use TO/GA in ANY plane, certainly the 747-400 because most flights in the 747 are long haul and you need that fuel that would otherwise be used " that's left for you to answer ! ----- I understand that you just had 500-1000 hrs in the 747s, i have nearly 500hrs combining 744 and 748 , well these information mostly quoted from MANUALS With application in my side . and remember if you didn't mention the 747s ,I wouldn't wrote after my 1st reply ,but you did .. using the word " certainly " !!! ----- Joe .. you are Senior no doubt , and I still remember that you the one who showed me how to refuel my PMDG :D ! -- Regards Mohammad Freigoun |
| Mohammad Freigoun 13th Jul 2011 20:44:01 | C:Program FilesMicrosoft GamesMicrosoft Flight Simulator XPMDG747400Operating Manual
-look for PDF called " 12_FMC_USERS_GUIDE_747_400_V10 " PAGE : 39 -look for PDF called "05_NORMAL_PROCEDURES_747_400_V10" PAGE : 14 -look for PDF called " 09_FLIGHT_TECHNIQUES_747_400_V10 " PAGE : 5 THE Above are procedures .. if we are talking about SYSTEMS : DON'T TRUST EXCEPT REAL OPERATING MANUAL FROM BOING COMPANY .. Trust me .. you can find it ! I know this is just PMDG .. but trust me ... will help you more than 300 hrs can do ... that's how i know things ! Good Luck Mohammad |
| Joe Lewis 14th Jul 2011 12:32:20 | Sorry, I thought TO/GA in the 747 set full thrust. My bad, I don't fly the 747 anymore. I assumed TOGA worked like in the 757/767. We press the GA pushbutton and it sets full thrust within limits.
Regards/ Joe |
| Mohammad Freigoun 16th Jul 2011 02:34:04 | why sorry !! we're here to share knowledge,well.. " within limits " as I briefed above in the 744 is been set by the pilot when he change/or/approve a THRUST LIMIT In the the CDU .. the TO/GA Will reach the N1s mentioned.
and by the way, have no clue about 767s & 757s .. just jumped directly to a 744 .. because by the end of the day I am just a simulator we are flying our preferences :) . ending the TO/GA discussion (if I may) with one last question : if there is a TO/GA thrust in the 757s/767s .. why they are different in function from the 747s ? are they ? Freigoun |
| Joe Lewis 16th Jul 2011 19:49:35 | From what you said Mohammad, the TOGA button in the 757/767, which is a black bushbutton under the lower EICAS labelled "GA" does the same thing, but it does not handle takeoff, just GO AROUND. It is a pre set N1 limit depentant on current conditions. We have what is called a TRP (Thrust Rating Panel) Which has all the preset modes. TO, CLB, 1, 2, CRZ, GA. 1-2 are CLB derates. We select TO on the TRP to set the N1 reference to the max "healthy" power dependant on conditions (Much like your 747), or we use the temperature select knob to set the simulated temperature to use a derated takeoff, which we can also set on the TAKEOFF page of the FMC. VNAV automatically sets the appropriate mode (CLB, CRZ, GA). GA is set on approach in the A.I.R.B.A.G Checklist, which is usually set automatically, but we check incase. For takeoffs, it is (for us) normal to use autothrottle coubled with N1 mode, which sets the N1 to the reference N1, which is controlled by the TAKEOFF page of the FMC or the TRP. We rarely takeoff using manual throttle, however we do spool up to 60% before engaging N1 mode. A/T is armed after we set up the FMC, so before pushback.
So in short, Pressing TO on the TRP, then using A/T coubled with N1 will give us the TO/GA power, and on approach we would use GA on the TRP and use the same method. (A/T coupled with N1), Shorter, the 757/767 has a more complex throttle but does the same thing. Then again, the 767 is older than the -400! I hope that answers your question. Regards/ Joe |
| Mohammad Freigoun 16th Jul 2011 20:55:59 | Finally Joe :))) we've joined the same circuit ! .. you're explaining it better than me now .. well written.
Regarding the answer .. I found what I was looking for. was very interesting, Thanks Captain :D Regards Freigoun |
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