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New version of FSX
Dave Wave
United Kingdom

19th Oct 2013
12:14:50
In the past, we used to get a new version of flight simulator every 2 or 3 years. It's now over 7 since fsx was released.

FSX was designed before cpus had more than one core, before AMD had bought ATI video cards. No wonder fsx runs like a dog on our modern machines compared to recent games.

Some time ago Microsoft licensed fsx to Lockheed Martin to produce commercial applications. In essence, they have continued to sell a very similar product to fsx inder the name Prepare3D

Buy now they are just about to launch version 2.0. This is the natural successor to fsx, technically, you should consider it as Flight Sim 11.

If you want to understand some of the new features in version 2.0 then I suggest you look at this page.

http://www.prepar3d.com/news/2013/10/4507/


It is my intention that FSopen will fully support this new version of Prepare3D, and I'm incredibly excited about the future of flight simulator.

What do you guys think?
Curley Campbell
United States
19th Oct 2013
16:56:07
Looks great, if you like the MP "mission only" section of FSX.... as that is the only portion of FSX that Lockheed it licensed for.
Dave Wave
United Kingdom

19th Oct 2013
17:08:39
I think multilayer works very similar to fsx although I think the racing feature introduced with acceleration has been removed.
David Bartlam
United Kingdom

19th Oct 2013
18:54:14
I think it's a great idea so long as you continue to host FSX :P

Will you adapt the service so that users on both P3D and FSX can see eachother and fly together? I know a few servers that use this and it's extremely effective
Curley Campbell
United States
19th Oct 2013
23:56:59
It runs similar to FSX... because it IS one module of FSX. Also why there is no racing feature. P3D is a great way to fly.

Let me clarify... you cannot run a standard FSX Muliplayer session... it is only the standard FSX "Mission Module" part of FSX. That is why the FPS are better .. and of course, you can us the extra "mission" features.
Robert Dunn
United States
20th Oct 2013
01:08:26
Thank you, Dave Wave, for this statement of support for Prepar3D multiplayer in your FSOpen platform coordinating efforts and intentions. msFLIGHTS.net has, as a community, expressed intense interest in this "FS11" (Prepar3D v2) offering. We had explored Prepar3D v1.4 intensively about a year ago and found no obvious benefit to our community's multiplayer efforts at that time. Upon release of Prepar3D v2, we will revisit that compatibility analysis. This would presume a pricing structure by Lockheed Martin in line with v1.4 single user "training" pricing. Our continued interest would also be dependent on the single session compatibility between our pilots that will continue to only fly FSX and those pilots that will fly Prepar3D v2. I have previously explored the link Mr. Wave supplies as well as other forums and announcements Google has provided me and I'm still unclear as to the native Prepar3D multiplayer compatibility with FSX. I read others far more FSXperienced than myself asking the same questions I am asking. Any further referrals to multiplayer compatibility discussions between these two simulation platforms would be much appreciated.

Of course we are aware of other multiplayer coordinating software that requires a client side software installation to effect this inter-platform compatibility. Our explorations continue to convince us that FSOpen Server2 is the best and most full featured offering on the market to date. Mr. Wave's statement of intention with regard to integrating Prepar3D v2 multiplayer into his offerings is welcome news indeed and most appreciated by our community.

Historically, our community's name has been unofficially associated with our roots in the multiplayer aspects of Microsoft Flight. That perceived association has long ceased to make any sense. While a small contingent of our members continue to fly Microsoft Flight primarily and a larger subset of our group occasionally schedules a nostalgia flight in that platform, we have long been mainly an FSX multi community. Unofficially, we have suggested among ourselves that the ms in msFLIGHTS.net now more appropriately might be acronym for "Multiplayer Simulations" (plural). My paragraph point here is that Prepar3D multiplayer, should you be able and willing to incorporate it into FSOpen ecosystem, would surely be the additional platform that such Multiplayer Simulations would refer to in our community name.

Apologies for this post's length. I've tried to stay on topic. Our community posts here in FSOpen forums far to infrequently. For several well meaning reasons, that infrequency has been intentional. We read here daily. Requests for help, both FSOpen specific and FSX host server-general appear to be fully answered by those far more expert than I. For that ongoing support we are all grateful. However... msFLIGHTS.net will participate in further discussions here of Prepar3D v2 multi with enthusiasm. We continue to admire and endorse our sister FSX multi communities, new and established, large and small and we offer whatever assistance may be required to facilitate the continued health of our multiplayer flight simulation hobby and passion. Lord knows you have all come to our assistance when we've needed your help the most.

Respects, Bob...

ROBERT DUNN 2
RSDunn2@msflights.net
Curley Campbell
United States
20th Oct 2013
02:18:50
IF you need, I will dig up the documents about the agreement between Microsoft and Lockheed.

As Lockheed's primary goal here is "training" simulators.. this makes sense... and it an excellent offering to the flight sim community.

Lockheed purchased ONLY the license from Microsoft for the "Mission" module of FSX. This is normally the the Option you have in multiplayer to host a "Mission" session.

Please understand..I am NOT trying to discourage use of or "bad mouth" P3D. I highly recommend it; as it is an excellent way to fly and a great way to do specific training for your pilots. I am sure the new V2 will greatly enhance the experience. However.. it is NOT a new FSX.... as we would normally think of it.


Robert Dunn
United States
20th Oct 2013
06:18:14



Please, gentlemen, continue to educate the FSX multi world with your knowledge and experiences here in this thread. Mr. Campbell's statement that "it is NOT a new FSX as we would [think]" causes me to ask for more information as may be applicable to multiplayer. Along the line of posts number 4, 5 and 6, any specific links or possibly your current knowledge explanation about P3Dv2-FSX concurrent multiplayer sessions configurations would be most appreciated. Will multiplayer concurrency with FSX be built in to P3Dv2? Will the two platforms "just connect" because Lockheed made P3Dv2 that way? Will we need a client software to be installed to make these two platforms fly together? Do we just have to wait for commercial release to find this stuff out or is information from closed beta on this available? May I play the role of inquisitive noob here in this cooperative multiplayer discussion and you other more FSXperienced administrators instruct us al?

My motivation for returning to this thread with these requests and questions is that this evening (western hemisphere time), a small conversation in an obscure support/training TeamSpeak channel broke out about Prepar3D v2 multiplayer. This P3D conversation expanded into 15 to 20 interested pilots who parked their aircraft to come actively participate in the spirited conversation. Some contributed on a technically knowledgeable level, some just listened and absorbed, sponge-like. This conversation went on for 2 1/2 to 3 hours. There is much member level interest in the multiplayer aspect of this subject, at least 'round our community.

I would be proud to introduce some of our knowledgeable members to this thread and forum as they may have the interest and the experience to contribute here effectively. I am not one of these guys, however. I'll represent the interests of the average FSX-FSOpen host server administrator. Thanks in advance for your attention to both Dave Wave's OP and my inquisitiveness.

Respects, Bob...
Dave Wave
United Kingdom

20th Oct 2013
08:04:36
Quick reply beofre I go out for the day.

Curley, I'm sure you're wrong on only being able to fly a mission. Check out this video at 45 seconds in.




Robert, there is no way fsx and P3D will work in the same session natively. The only way to do this is to use fshost etc but you then loose the benefit of native sessions.

We had similar problems when sp2 for fsx was released. No one wanted to upgrade their servers for fear of losing players that did not want/could not upgrade.

David Bartlam
United Kingdom

20th Oct 2013
11:08:28
So P3D is intergrated into FSX? Would that mean that all my addon planes would still work? I've spent so many hundreds, if not over a thousand pounds collectively on the addons I have. Are these compatible with P3D?
Robert Dunn
United States
20th Oct 2013
11:44:55
Dave Wave, this post of yours at xx:04:36 is disheartening news. Your clarification is consistent with what I was getting in my less than knowledgeable searches on the subject. Our community so far chooses to avoid solutions that would require client side software installations. We also choose to continue to use FSOpen Sessions2 because of its inherent suitability for our needs. Therefore, I guess we will look to you and FSOpen for the best possible solution to how to incorporate and coordinate P3Dv2 into our multiplayer community.

David Bartlam, I'm sure Dave Wave or others will more completely answer your existing FSX payware port to P3Dv2 question. If I see here that your question is not sufficiently addressed, I will post it on our forum so that you may read what our FSXperienced pilots have to say. Several of our members are very knowledgeable on this subject and I believe to a large extent such conversion is possible, even easy (for v1.4). I read on third party developers' sites offerings for the same aircraft in a purchaser's choice of FSX or P3Dv1.4. I see in installation dialog boxes a choice of installation for either FSX or P3Dv1.4 for the same scenery or aircraft files. I read where, altho illegal, small textual edits of some aircraft .cfg files is all that is necessary to make some FSX native (not FS2004 portover) payware aircraft P3D compatable (version 1.4 anyway). However, I am NOT sure of this information and I beg here correction of any error I make and any further explanation of Mr. Bartlam's question. As an aside, we noticed you flying briefly in our FSX-FSOpen session this night while our pilots were having that big P3Dv2 discussion. We noticed your quite ambitious flight plan. Sighting your flight made several of us who admire FSXWorldwide and you personally smile.

Respects, Bob...
Joe Clifford
United Kingdom

20th Oct 2013
13:05:23
Morning all.

Dave, I'm pleased to hear that you are 'Prepar'ed to make FSOpen software compatible with Prepar3D. I'm not sure how much you have looked into the SDK however you may be pleased to know that much of SimConnect has remained exactly the same and some extra features have been spoken about by the Lockheed Martin developers on their forum such as the ability to ban people via SimConnect and get data on them without having to sniff packets.

A few questions I can answer...
----------------------------------------------------

1)Can my add-ons be used in Prepar3D
The simple answer is Yes. All add-ons for FSX Compatible with SP2 are automatically compatible with Prepar3D, however, some may require some tweaking in regards to folder names. Most new add-ons will give the user the choice of where they would like to install the application or ask them if they are using 'FSX' or 'Prepar3D'. The files themselves are exactly the same, its just the naming of some of the gauges and where they are installed that is different. Prepar3D state on their website that there are a number of applications available that enable you to tweek a registry file so that Add-ons that force installation to an FSX Directory can be rerouted. They do however say that it is important to check the legal terms and conditions of the Add-on you are installing first.

----------------------------------------------------
2)Are FSX & Prepar3D multiplayer sessions compatible
No. The FSX Multiplayer (MP) framework is different to that of the Prepar3D framework. You have hopefully all noticed a number of problems with the way that FSX handles MP sessions and it would appear that Prepar3D decided it was easier to start from scratch rather than fix what was already there. Quite sensible if you ask me.

Prepar3D has a similar way of managing sessions, users can connect to a host via direct connect, however, both entities must be running Prepar3D. They say it has something to do with the support for the new multichannel functionality.

So, how can we combat this? Having tested and still testing Prepar3D V2 beta I know that I am not getting anywhere near as smooth a gameplay as I do with FSX. It is worth noting that my PC is far from good when it comes to Gaming PC's. My PC is used for WebDesign and Software Development. FSX is a hobby and a platform to practise along real world flying.

I personally, would prefer to say on FSX rather than move over (unless I get a better system). What happens if a number of server make the move to Prepar3D. Does that mean I am not going to be able to fly with others. No, there are ways around it.

One way would be for FSOpen to take data of aircraft in a session (which it already does) and give users the ability to inject this data into their own 'FreeFlight' session as AI aircraft. This would allow FSX users the ability to see the players in Prepar3D. The problem you may experience is getting the Prepar3D players to see the FSX players as you could run the risk of flooding the server with AI. How was controlling work like that, I have no clue.

Regards

Joe
Dave Wave
United Kingdom

20th Oct 2013
14:36:48
Joe, I presume your response is about P3D v1.4, for which I see no point in supporting as it offers little if nothing over fsx.

Who knows if addons for fsx will work with v2.0 because its not final code yet. I suspect some might but some won't and some might work but not completely. If your fsx addon doesn't work today with P3D 1.4 I think its safe to assume it won't work with 2.0. Question is, will the maker of your addon support P3D v2.0 and importantly offer you a free update?

My intention is that each licence for FSopen server and open clouds will work with fsx and P3D v2.0 so users purchasing today can be confident that they can upgrade in the future with no extra cost.

I think developers fall into 3 categories.

1. Won't support P3D
2. Will support P3D but you need to buy a new version of your addon.
3. Will support P3D, and offer a free upgrade.

I also suspect many will change their position once v2.0 is launched :)

As I said in my previous post, consider this as version 11 of fsx. As yet we don't know how much it is, or how could it is and therefore, how many people are likely to upgrade.
David Bartlam
United Kingdom

20th Oct 2013
15:58:31
For me personally, I won't be upgrading until P3D has been on the market for a considerable amount of time and the aircraft, weather engines, scenery etc that I use on a regular basis are available and it has a proven track record of being better than FSX.

I first joined the FSX world in November 2011 where FSX had been out for a while and developers were established... I think I personally will wait until P3D has been out for a good period of time, is proven to be better than FSX and the developers all take hold of it!

With FSX being as buggy as it is, I welcome change... But it's got to be worthwhile.
Dave Wave
United Kingdom

20th Oct 2013
16:21:05
I will be buying it on day one for two reasons.

1. I have a lot of people asking me to support it so I need to understand it.

2. I feel Lockheed Martin deserve my money for supporting flight sim. Conversely Microsoft don't !

Not sure if I'll use it from day one as my main sim but I'm sure I'll be using it a lot. I hate stutters etc in fsx.
David Bartlam
United Kingdom

20th Oct 2013
16:24:57
Couldn't agree with you more. I'll certainly buy it if the reviews are good enough, I just hope it's not another Flight failure! I'd switch on day one if it wasn't for all my addons
Joe Clifford
United Kingdom

20th Oct 2013
17:00:32
Dave,

The post is for both I suppose. Any add-ons that currently work for FSX SP2 do work with V1 of Prepar3D however require some fiddling as mentioned in my previous post.

V2 Beta has been released to developers of Prepar3D for a few weeks now, after paying them the developer subscription monthly and signing up to wish to test V2 they provide you with the download.

The code is far from complete so, as you say, who knows what V2 will provide in its final release however, at the moment, everything from V1 has been transferred and just improved.

Version 1 of Prepar3D really is just FSX with a few aesthetics changed and made to run more efficiently on powerful PCs (of which mine is not!) there is no real change with regards to how you can develop with it. V2 however, although still running on the SimConnect framework (where all of the functions I have ever used appear to be working fine) there have been some bits and pieces added but I just don't have the time at the moment to dive into them. Once my newest projected is finished then Ill be sure to give it a go, trying to make it compatible with P3D.

Joe
Robert Dunn
United States
21st Oct 2013
11:16:14
Mr. Clifford said "V2 Beta has been released to developers of Prepar3D for a few weeks now, after paying them the developer subscription monthly and signing up to wish to test V2 they provide you with the download."

Based on this (possibly misunderstood) information, I followed Dave Wave over to the P3D Multiplayer Specific Questions forum, posted an msFLIGHTS.net community introduction and stated our community's intention to explore enrollment in P3D v2 beta testing.

Any further information on the likelihood of a beta tester enrollment being granted and/or the procedure and registration method involved would be greatly appreciated. Should we be granted such beta test admission, our community would offer to Dave to coordinate multiplayer beta testing with FSOpen.

Respects, Bob...
Robert Dunn
United States
21st Oct 2013
21:59:38


Yep, apparently I did misunderstand Joe Clifford's beta testing comment that I quoted in my post above. An open beta is not available to our community. Mr. Bard from Lockheed Martin replied to my post of inquiry on his forum thusly:

[BEGIN QUOTE]

Hi Bob, Thanks for your post. We do not have an open beta planned or announced for Prepar3D v2, as such there is no sign up. We appreciate your interest in and support of Prepar3D!
Software Manager - Prepar3D® Team

[EOF]

I replied with my thanks and stated our intention to then proceed with our P3D v2 evaluation upon commercial release of v2. I asked of Mr. Bard further multiplayer specific and general pricing questions.

Respects, Bob...
Robert Dunn
United States
28th Oct 2013
05:39:42
Apologies for double posting this notice of appreciation regarding Dave Wave's FSOpen landing page Prepar3D v2 announcement. This is the correct thread, Server2 v.96 was not where to post this. The part of my previous post that belongs here read:

"Additionally, our community sincerely appreciates your intended support of Prepar3D v2 as per your FSOpen home page announcement. We follow your thread on Lockheed's Prepar3D multiplayer specific forum. We anxiously await any further word you may want to put out regarding what we communitiess will need to do in order to take advantage of your Prepar3D v2 support here at FSOpoen. As you know, we intend to support both platforms and we are exploring concurrency between FSX and Prepar3D."

Respects, Bob...
RSDunn2@msflights.net



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